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Edrith's avatar

I really like your broad framing on 'select and respect'. It feels a useful lens through which to have this discussion, though it won't surprise you that I'd put some of the specific parameters in different places! And it was great to read an academic willing to break cover on the fact that universities are not all the same and should not be treated as such.

Three thoughts I had:

1. Although the average working immigrant may be economically beneficial, a substantial minority are not. Reducing the numbers of these is a win-win and does not involve the trade-off you describe.

2. The one element I felt the piece missed was the crucial element of unfairness that many believe underpin the current regime. I happen to agree with you that we make it too hard for UK citizens to bring their spouses over. But until this month, refugees could bring over their families with no such maintenance requirements - and then be jumped to the front of the social housing queue (see Alice Thomson's very good piece in the Times this week). How can that disparate treatment be fair?

3. I would add a third element, after 'select and respect', which is 'deport'. The inability to automatically deport those who do wrong - whether that is committing a serious crime, or simply breaching the terms of a short-stay visa - hamstrings our ability functioning immigration system. Indeed, a functioning deportation system would mean we could be less harsh at denying tourist visas to young, unattached people from developing countries: the 'flight risk' issue would disappear if we could be confident we could deport those who breached their visa terms without being thwarted by human rights appeals.

Finally, I think our biggest underlying difference is that - as I read it - you see ILR, and citizenship, as rights that should accrue, and it is wrong for us to withhold them. As someone who lived for two and a half years in a foreign country, I always felt strongly that I was a guest in their home, with a duty to respect their culture and ways, and that anything I were to receive from them would have been a privilege at their discretion, not a right.

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Odradek's avatar

"I think liberals are kidding themselves if they think these people are somehow misled or don’t know the real numbers etc."

That people don't know the real numbers is just a solidly documented fact. But it is a completely different question whether anything could be done about this; and again a different question whether it would make any difference anyway.

Immigration concerns are widely viewed as having swung the Brexit referendum. But look at where the net migration curve was in 2016: at roughly the level which you estimate would be a sustainable level now (after a further decade of declining living standards).

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